Using JonDo or Tor with VPN (question)

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AnonymousUser
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 22:52

Using JonDo or Tor with VPN (question)

Post by AnonymousUser » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:12

I was wondering if using a good well known VPN along with Tor or JonDo could compromise anonymity or security? I would like to run as follows however I'm not sure if the VPN will conflict with Tor or JonDo in any way:

Me>VPN>Tor Bundle

Me>VPN>JonDo/JonDoFox


Earlier today I booted my machine, fired up the VPN and logged in. After the VPN was up and running I then launched JonDo and selected a mix. Lastly I started JonDoFox and all seemed normal including the ip-check test (all green).

Any info on this would be much appreciated!

Guran
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 20:46

Re: Using JonDo or Tor with VPN (question)

Post by Guran » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:57

AnonymousUser wrote:I was wondering if using a good well known VPN along with Tor or JonDo could compromise anonymity or security?
To my knowledge, not.
I would like to run as follows however I'm not sure if the VPN will conflict with Tor or JonDo in any way:
There is no conflict with all kind of vpn I have tested (PPPT, L2TP, OpenVpn)

Me>VPN>Tor Bundle

Me>VPN>JonDo/JonDoFox
It would have more sense to do

You>Tor>VPN (>Jondo) or you>Jondo>Tor (>VPN)

sovereignpress
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Re: Using JonDo or Tor with VPN (question)

Post by sovereignpress » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:24

Guran wrote:
It would have more sense to do

You>Tor>VPN (>Jondo) or you>Jondo>Tor (>VPN)
The problem with that, however, is that it will not work.

You have to consider what your intent is.

The only way You>Tor>VPN is recommended is if you use this setup 100% of the time. Once you login in directly to the VPN, the VPN service will know your real IP address, which defeats the whole purpose of staying anonymous to the VPN.

Such a setup is not practical and indeed--may not be possible.

Many in this forum have tried a You>Tor/JonDo>VPN and it has never worked for anyone.

However, many claim (on VPN forums) to have connected thus.

It may work for Windows (can someone check this?) but it does not work for Ubuntu or Mint.

My advice is--accept that the VPN will see your real IP--life is too difficult otherwise--and then for more sensitive privacy, exit via JonDo or for anonymity, Tor.

Guran
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 20:46

Re: Using JonDo or Tor with VPN (question)

Post by Guran » Fri Apr 12, 2013 22:22

sovereignpress wrote:
Guran wrote:
It would have more sense to do

You>Tor>VPN (>Jondo) or you>Jondo>Tor (>VPN)
The problem with that, however, is that it will not work.

You have to consider what your intent is.

The only way You>Tor>VPN is recommended is if you use this setup 100% of the time. Once you login in directly to the VPN, the VPN service will know your real IP address, which defeats the whole purpose of staying anonymous to the VPN.
You can trust a vpn, you can more difficult trust an unknown exit tor node.

The purpose of the config Tor>VPN is not to hidden your IP for the VPN but to avoid that the tor exit node snif your traffic. With this config it sees only encrypted unreadable datas.
Such a setup is not practical and indeed--may not be possible.
I Think not. Because I'using it since 30 mn. You have to launch Tor with tor.exe, to use a TCP OpenVPN, and to write:

socks-proxy-retry 127.0.0.1 9050

in the .ovpn file of your vpn. Try it !


EDIT: Hmmm I have been maybe a little too enthusiastic: The icon of my VPN is green, Tor is working, there is no disconnection, there is internet traffic between my LAN and my local network #2 (the vpn) but... When I perform the IP-Check test, my IP is seen as a Tor IP and not as my VPN IP. Yet as said before there is traffic through my vpn.... The topology has to be examinated with more attention.

sovereignpress
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Re: Using JonDo or Tor with VPN (question)

Post by sovereignpress » Fri Apr 12, 2013 23:43

You can trust a vpn, you can more difficult trust an unknown exit tor node.

The purpose of the config Tor>VPN is not to hidden your IP for the VPN but to avoid that the tor exit node snif your traffic. With this config it sees only encrypted unreadable datas.
That's only partly true. There are two reasons for doing this--to hide your IP from the VPN and because of Tor exit nodes. But the main reason is the former. In truth, one does not have to use Tor--one can exit with JonDo or other proxies that are secure.

So in truth, it is principally because one wishes to hide his IP from the VPN.

The problem with your argument--is which VPN do you trust? Do you trust a VPN enough to make a direct connection and exit out of the VPN? If so, why use JonDo or Tor or onion routers?

Consider this scenario. Say you connect to a VPN with a direct IP. The VPN has your login credentials—username and password. Your IP is known. Say one day you decide to do something very private and secretive (even illegal). You connect to the VPN from Tor—to avoid the Tor exit nodes problem—and you exit from the “trusted” VPN; but, little do you know, that the VPN still knows it is you hiding behind Tor. If the VPN receives a court order, it is going to release your data to the government. You are not protected.

But say you exit out of the VPN to Tor for additional anonymity, the VPN knows you connected to Tor—but beyond that, you remain invisible. You are better protected.

Even good VPNs tell you to make a partition of trust.

There are few VPNs that are very good but I do not trust any of them.

As for Tor exit nodes, this is only a real problem with unencrypted websites, since the encrypted web servers encrypt the data traffic out of the Tor exit nodes to the webserver.

This can only be a real problem if a strong opponent has a global control over the network, especially the entry and exit nodes, but even in such cases, the traffic is still not readable when transmitted to an encrypted webserver. Man in the middle attacks are a different issue altoghether.
I Think not. Because I use it since 30 mn. You have to launch Tor with tor.exe, to use a TCP OpenVPN, and to write:

socks-proxy-retry 127.0.0.1 9050

in the .ovpn file of your vpn. Try it !
I already wrote that people on VPN forums claim that they do it, so it does not surprise me. And I also stated that it may work for Windows, which it does.

I'm already aware of the fact that one would have to connect from a proxy into a TCP VPN.

See here:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7216

However, in my experience in Linux, having tested it with JonDo and Tor, it did not work, nor has it worked for others.

It should though.

Bakagan
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:23

Re: Using JonDo or Tor with VPN (question)

Post by Bakagan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:50

You should better check some info via https://en.finevpn.org/how-to-set-up-a- ... n-android/ to understand how to use VPN with different secret browsers your android device. Its not so hard as you can except - just some clicks and done.

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